Sandstone Estates complies with Rail Safety Regulator requirements.

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SAS and SAR lettering

We have had a number of people, particularly modelers, asking us for details of correct lettering when marking locomotives with SAR insignia. We use an outstanding sign company to do the work and we have attached their latest artwork. They can supply complete decal sets, prespaced and ready to apply. (Each letter will be individually cut out but spaced correctly on a single sheet of backing paper and with application tape applied). The size of this works out to approximately 850mm X 760mm and a decal this size will cost R258.00 per decal (or R516.00 per set of 2 decals).

Should anyone require further details they can contact Jerry Evans on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

 

Sandstone accused of scrapping Heritage Railway items.

 

An item has appeared in the sar-L blog which is supported by a number of steam preservationists worldwide to the effect that Sandstone has cut up a vintage lathe previously based at the Alfred County Railway Port Shepstone workshops.  The history of the lathe is as follows:

 

When  the  Sandstone Heritage Trust was first invited by Andries Geyser, the liquidator of the Alfred County Railway to view various Heritage item for disposal , this lathe was seen to have been stripped and to be badly rusted.  Notwithstanding the above we made an offer to purchase it.  Eventually after much consultation the liquidator advised that this item did not fall under the liquidation of ACR and was in fact a Spoornet (division of Transnet) asset.  An official offer was made to purchase the item by Sandstone but at no stage did they respond.  This is normal since offers to purchase items from the National Railways  are seldom acknowledged.  Subsequent to the above the site was cleared and we assume that the item was sold for scrap or stolen by scrap thieves.

 

We would like to state unilaterally that the accusation made by Julian Pereira of the Alan Paton Railway that this item was scrapped by Sandstone is not correct.  Sandstone has spent considerable time and money saving Railway Heritage items and in fact restoring them and would gain no benefit from scrapping them.

 

We do accept that there is divisiveness in the Steam Preservation world and sometimes people with an axe to grind make these statements.  In response to the many people who have sent us e-mails asking why we were involved in this scrapping exercise we hope that our explanation will suffice.  The entire transaction is well documented from our side.

 

We would also add that in the view of our technical personnel this item was beyond repair due to the fact that it had been outside for so long.  At best it could have survived as an incomplete static exhibit.

 

SARL member writes:

 

Picked this up today, refer to posting 2a and 2b reply from Julian Pereira. This does not look like Sandstone’s style!

 

 

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: 06 April 2010 12:11
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: [sar-L] Digest Number 3404

 

South African Railways fans

2a.

2' gauge shop equipment From: david b

2b.

Re: 2' gauge shop equipment From: Patons Country Narrow Gauge Railway

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2a.

2' gauge shop equipment

Posted by: "david b" This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.   locomotive112

Mon Apr 5, 2010 10:23 pm (PDT)

Does any member know if either the Portshepstone or Port Elizabeth shops, or any of the South African shops for that mater, have any; wheel lathes, crank pin lathes and journal lathes that were specifically manufactured in the smaller size required for the 2' gauge equipment?

Most of the wheel lathes in North America can go no smaller than a 26" Dia. wheel and I don't think they will grab an axle of less than about 5' in length, so they won't work on the 2' gauge equipment.

I know the 3' gauge "Durango and Silverton" in Durango, Colorado. USA bought one of the SAR's driving wheel lathes back in the early 1990's. I wonder if these were capable of also working on the SAR's 2' gauge; wheels, axles, journals and crank pins?

Please enlighten me. I've wanted to know the answer to this question for about 20 years now. Loco112

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2b.

Re: 2' gauge shop equipment

Posted by: "Patons Country Narrow Gauge Railway" This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.   dukejpdac

Tue Apr 6, 2010 3:10 am (PDT)

There was one at Port Shepstone which was cut up for scrap by Sandstone

A One-day Conference at the National Railway Museum in York, Walker and Alport Rooms

Outline Programme:
09:00 Registration and Coffee
09:45-10:15 Welcome and Introduction by C. Divall
10:15-11:30 Beyond Porta: New Front End Research (J.J.G. Koopmans)
(History of Front-End Research and Latest Developments)
11:30-12:00 Coffee and Tea Break
12:00-13:15 Experience with Modern Steam and new Developments (R. Waller, DLM)
Modern Steam in England: The 5AT Project (A. Fozard & C. Newman)
13:15-14:15 Lunch in the Engine Hall of the National Railway Museum
14:15-15:30 New Build Steam in England: The A1 Project (D. Elliott)
New Thinking on Fireless Steam Propulsion (H. Valentine)
15:30-16:00 Tea and Coffee Break
16:00-17:15 Modern Steam on the Hauenstein in Switzerland (A. Haas)
Alternative Traction for Community Railways (J. Sharpe)
17:15-17:30 Closing address by P. Salvesen

Conference Chairs:
Colin Divall (IRSTH), Robin Saunders (Sheffield) and Felix Schmid (RRUK)

Conference Fees:
£120.00 Standard Conference Fee including Refreshments and Proceedings

£ 85.00 Advance Payment Fee (Deadline 20 October 2006)
£ 50.00 Special Fee (Limited Number of Places, on Application to the IRS&TH)

Sponsoring Organisations:
Institute of Railway Studies & Transport History, National Railway Museum, Rail Research UK

Conference Journal:
‘Steam Railway’

Further Information and Registration:
Martyn Halman, IRS&TH Facilitator
Institute of Railway Studies
University of York
Heslington
York YO10 5DD
Tel: 01904 686 284
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Marina Boulis
Department of Mechanical Engineering
University of Sheffield
Mappin Street
Sheffield S1 3JD
Tel: 0114 222 7751
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Objectives of the Conference Organisers
The one-day conference on Developments in Modern Steam Traction for Railways is aimed at show-casing recent research and technical advances in railway steam traction for commercial use in specific applications. Colin Divall and Felix Schmid initiated this event in order to publicise the completion of Dr. J.J.G. Koopmans’ ground-breaking research into the front end design of steam locomotives and to promote current work on modern steam traction taking place in a number of European countries. It is hoped that the speakers and audience will engage in fruitful debates on the future direction of modern steam traction.

Who Should Attend
Developments in Modern Steam Traction is targeted at railway engineers and managers working in a professional capacity in today’s railway industry and in heritage operations. The conference is intended to raise their awareness of current developments in modern steam traction, the opportunities and limitations.
The organisers are expecting delegates with realistic views of the market potential of modern steam traction and interested in optimising its potential while minimising the environmental impact of steam railway operations. Heritage railways, in particular, will find that they have to improve the environmental footprint of their operations if they are to continue to succeed in an increasingly aware tourist market place.

The Contributions
Colin Divall will introduce the conference and will set the scene with a brief overview of steam traction as a commercially viable traction option for tourist railways and specific other applications.

Jos Koopmans studied at the Universities of Delft and Sheffield and presented his doctoral thesis 'The fire burns much better...' at the University of Sheffield in autumn 2005. His theoretical and practical studies have led to a substantial extension of the work of Chapelon and Dante Porta and have resulted in guidelines for good practice in front end design. Jos will outline the history of front-end research from its earliest days at the beginning of the 19th century to the work of Porta in Argentina. He will then outline the conclusions from his theoretical studies and will describe the results of the tests he undertook with the RTM54 locomotive in Holland.
Roger Waller of Dampflokomotiv und Maschinenfabrik of Switzerland will report on his company’s experience with building new steam locomotives and a steam engine for the ‘Montreux’ lake steamer for Lake Geneva. He will also discuss recent projects and plans.

Alan Fozard and Chris Newman will update the audience on progress with the 5AT project, conceived by David Wardale and his team, and will outline the major technical advances to be incorporated in the design to achieve success in commercial operation.

David Elliott will discuss the current status of the A1 project, including the production of the boiler and will inform the audience of the next steps. He will highlight the difficult compromise decisions that must be taken when recreating a historic locomotive that must satisfy modern standards of safety and environmental performance.

Harry Valentine will outline the current thinking on the use of stored steam in traction applications, with a particular focus on the availability of process steam and industrial applications.

Alfred Haas and John Sharpe will present both a Swiss and a UK view on the potential role of modern steam traction in enhancing the attractiveness of community railways and in revitalising branch lines.
Paul Salveson from Northern Rail will provide a closing summary, commenting on the relevance of the day’s proceedings for today’s railway industry.

Conference Proceedings
It is expected that conference proceedings, including technical papers by the authors, will be published by IRS&TH after the conference in paper form and these will be dispatched to delegates at the address given on the application form.

Registration Form (copy and paste into an email/word document)
I / we wish to participate in the 1-day conference ‘Developments in Modern Steam Traction for Railways’ at the National Railway Museum, 11 December 2006. Please reserve …. places for my organisation.
Name: …………………………………. Title: Mr. / Mrs. / Miss / Dr. / Prof. / Ir.
First Name: ………………………………….
Job Role: ………………………………….
Department: ………………………………….
Organisation: ………………………………….
Address: ………………………………….
Address: ………………………………….
Address: ………………………………….
City: ………………………………….
Post Code: ………………………………….
Country: ………………………………….

Conference Fees:
£125.00 Standard Conference Fee including Refreshments and Proceedings
£ 90.00 Advance Payment Fee (Deadline 20 October 2006)
£ 50.00 Special Fee (Limited Number of Places, on Application to the IRS&TH)
I enclose a cheque to the amount of £ …….., made out to ‘The University of York’.

Application for Special Fee
A number of reduced fee places are reserved for technical staff from heritage and community railways. Applications for a supported place must be made in writing to:
Prof. Colin Divall, IRH&TS at the University of York
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please send the registration form to either:
Martyn Halman, IRS&TH Facilitator
Institute of Railway Studies
University of York
Heslington
York YO10 5DD
Tel: 01904 686 284
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Marina Boulis
Department of Mechanical Engineering
University of Sheffield
Mappin Street
Sheffield S1 3JD
Tel: 0114 222 7751
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 

SANDSTONE STEAM LOCOMOTIVES: THE RATANGA LOCOMOTIVE This last week Henry made good progress with the restoration of the Little Ratanga Locomotive. He machined new piston and valve rings as well as some of the bushes on the motion. Henry completed the left side of the locomotive motion and is busy with the right side. Lukas Nel in Bloemfontein also completed the boiler work that was needed. Below are some photos taken of Henry and the Ratanga Locomotive restoration.
The right cylinder.	Henry making new packing for the cylinder covers.
The piston head, cylinder cover, piston and crosshead.	Henry cleaning of all the rust and uneven surfaces inside the cylinder.
Good clean workmanship.
Henry machining parts for the Ratanga locomotive.	The inside of the right cylinder after Henry machined it to a smooth surface.
The Ratanga tender.	The motion on the right.
Once Henry is finished with both sides of the motion and cylinders, I shall set the valves and test her with air. The cab was sanded off and will be spray-painted soon. The boiler will then be fitted and the cladding will be made. The tender is halfway completed and on hold till Henkie returns from Port Shepstone.
CLASS NG 15 NUMBER 17: Last week we steamed the Kalahari on Saturday and this week it was time to attend to all the little steam leaks that was booked. Normally the driver will book the repairs and will not care how many he book, for it’s the fitters problem to fix all the repairs, but here I book repairs and have to fit them myself. J All the tarot spindles were packed and the left injector spindle has to be faced.
Packing of the spindle packing nuts with rope.	The injector spindle and valve was removed.
The injector valve with a thin layer of grinding paste.	The faced injector steam valve.
CLASS NGG 13 NUMBER 49 This week we took of the rear steam brake cylinder of 49 that was not working. The brake cylinder then was stripped and cleaned and a new steam pipe was fitted. The steam old steam pipe was blocked and was the reason the brake cylinder did not work. At least it was worth it to clean the cylinder in and outside.
Below left: The brake cylinder.
Below: The cylinder was stripped and cleaned.
Below: Then a new steam pipe was fitted after the cylinder was cleaned and lubricated inside and out.
CLASS NGG 16 Number 153 This week all the tarot spindles of 153 were packed as well as the ejector packing nuts.
THE LAWLEY:   The Lawley received some special attention this week. First of all the lubricator pipes were loosened and the choke valves were removed. The choke valves were stripped and were washed with degreaser. It is very important to keep these tiny holes open for they easily blocks. We then removed the valve covers and the valve setting was checked. Before we could do the valve setting, it was needed to catch up the play on all the pins working directly to the valves.   Below: The valve of the Lawley The Choke valve The stripped choke valves. Pins removed to catch up any play. The reverse axles were removed, cleaned and the play cached up.   THE WICKHAM RAILCAR: The Wickham came to the Inspection pit this week and little repair work was done to it. Henry made a new exhaust bracket and secured the exhaust.     THE FUNKEY MIDGET This Little locomotive gave some problems with her rear coupler and Derrick removed and done some welding work on it. Below is a photo of Derrick fitting back the coupler.   THE BSA RAILCAR: The BSA Railcar was re-railed this week and a full-scale restoration is done to the body as well as the mechanical side.   Below: Derrick is working on the body. Henry is doing the mechanical side of the car.   SANDSTONE ESTATES TRACK: This week the entire Railway line was sprayed for weeds. To see a short clip of the Wickham attacking weeds, click here! >>>>>>   POINT NUMBERS We made and stenciled numbers for the points. Each set of points has its own number, as illustrated below right. This will make it easier to book repairs as well as to follow up on repairs. The rest of the point will receive their numbers in next week. PHOTO BELOW: While we were spraying the Railway line, two airplanes were spraying the lands on the Farm. Below: Just imagine yourself on a train running through these breathtaking scenes on the Sandstone Steam Railway. Here are so many photo opportunities to be explored. WOODEN TOLLS: Petrus completed 21 wooden tolls so far and will continuous as soon as he is finish cleaning all the locomotives motion. LOCOMOTIVE MOTIONS: Below are some photos taken of Petrus washing the motion of the locomotives. We are going to clean the motions of the locomotives after each run and once they are clean, it will not take up much time to keep them clean. It is needed to be kept clean to enable us to see if any cracks may occur. THE OVERHAED WATER COLUMN: This week we erected the overhead column just outside the shed where we lit the locomotives. We can shunt out the locomotives and while we wait for steam we can fill the tenders and safe lots of time. The water for the column comes directly out of the black water tank wagon on the left in the photo below. The column has no water in unless we plug in the two-inch water pipe and start our big centrifugal pump. This is water in a second with a feeding of 27000 liters an hour. We also fitted a spray light in the middle of the column to light up the area below the column in the nights. Above left: Derrick shows where the two-inch pipe is connected. Below: Henry machined a pin for the Farm. WAGON NEWS: The restoration of the wagons is slightly on hold while we concentrate on other loose ends. However, Derrick is busy with the fitting of a new vacuum train pipe onto the XC as illustrated below.   PLANNING FOR NEXT WEEK 1.) To fit back brake cylinder of 49 2.) To prepare Little Bess and the Peckett to steam. 3.) To go on with restoration of BSA Railcar body and mechanical. 4.) To clean the motion of all locomotives 5.) To clean Locomotives 6.) To box remaining wooden Tolls 7.) To go on with restoration of Ratanga Locomotive. 8.) To ballast storage line and lift and pack. 9.) To offload spares from Port Shepstone. 10.) To fit all point numbers. 11.) To stencil wagons 12.) To do under frame restoration of XC and stencil. 13.) Locomotive Repairs. 14.) Train Tour on Saturday. 15.) Wagon maintenance   NEXT LOCOMOTIVE IN STEAM!

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News

RN 293 - Madelaine Senekal brings the local children from the church for a day of steam

14th December 2006

Madelaine Senekal, her husband Jan and their two sons brought their church group of 70 underprivileged children to Sandstone to enjoy a day of steam! Madelaine's thank you letter explains it all!

Dear Mr. Mole, From myself, Jan , our two boys and 70 other children we would like to thank you very much for the wonderful opportunity to visit Sandstone Estates on 4/11/06. I think it was better than the children's wildest dreams, definitely not what they had in mind at all. There was a little boy that went to the reverant and said: "Sir I have a train too, but only a toy one, but today I am very glad I could have a ride in a real locomotive". Our youngest Jano, was very excited as we came near to the farm. Some of the children were riding with us in the car. He could not stop telling them about Pandora, Kommandoberg, Drakenstein, the silo's, the oxen, the steam tractors etc, etc. One little girl said to him, "Jano it looks like you know everything about the farm?" and he proudly answered that of course, this is where I grew up, then he just chatted away telling them with his two eyes so big, remembering everything that he could remember about the farm. Our church has got an orphange house that we must look after with regards to food, clothes and cleaning materials. Our ladies each get a chance quarterly to give a bithday party for 14 children. 9 of the boys were also at the farm. One little boy who was in our carriage did not say much, he just stood wondering away as the locomotive steamed along. We who have more than enough dont realise everyday how fortunate we are. This little boy is probably not even 10years old, and has ahad so many awful things happen to him in his life. So we could place the little stars back in his eyes, although it was just for the moment. A small token of appreciation will be delivered to the farm as well as a cd with some pictures on. For Hester, Gert, Derick and Petrus who organised and handled everything we also want to say thank you. It was really nice seeing all of you again. I myself left the farm with tears in my eyes Thank you very much once again. Lots of love, Madeleine, Jan, Morne and Jano Senekal

All the happy kids in front of the Waenhuis

Smiling in fron of the Kalahari's tender

Gert Jubileus with Derrik van Zyl in the background on the Kalahari's footplate

While the church group's visit was complimentary (Sandstone Estates hosts many such educational children's groups throughout the year) it is nonetheless good to remind everybody that certain things are "the right thing to do".

The Kalahari off to a steaming start

Hanging out of carriage windows is a great way to pass the afternoon!

Mmm... I'm not too sure about this... will this thing hold?

Tenelle & Lenka Papenfus in front of the Kalahari, with Gert Jubileus and Derrik van Zyl

Enjoying the view

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News

RN 294 - An outing for the Peckett 2161

14th December 2006

Our newly restored Peckett, No.2161 had an outing during the week. It is a big, solid, powerful locomotive that performed flawlessly.

Below: Driver Derrik van Zyl

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News RN 296 - O & K update from Bloemfontein 14th December 2006 Quietly in the corner of Lukas Nel's workshop, another locomotive is moving towards full restoration. O&K 0-4-WT 2510/1907, is seen here in its different forms.

The chassis and wheels.

The boiler is complete and ready for installation.

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News

RN 297 - The NG4 is coming together very rapidly now

14th December 2006

The NG4 is coming together very rapidly now. When the brass goes onto a loco in Lukas Nel's wonderful workshop in Bloemfontein one must start planning the steam trials.

A close-up of the brass.

A close-up of the brass.

One should remember that this locomotive had almost no components left. The reverser had to be made from scratch.

During last week Lukas had an assistant in the form of Robert Farmer from the UK. Robert has come out to South Africa for a few weeks and offered his services as a volunteer. He is knowledgeable and has been of great assistance to us. Here is a picture of Robert on the footplate of the NG4.

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News

RN 298 - Spectacular documents on the Avontuur line's rich history

19th December 2006

Although the memories of the Sandstone Heritage Trust Avontuur Adventurer train in 2005 is fading from memory, the line's future remains in the balance. To support our position that this is the most spectacular Narrow Gauge railway in the world (in fact apart from being the longest and serving the highest bridge), it has a very rich history which is well documented.

One of the residents of Avontuur, Jimmy Zondach, has kindly made available this spectacular set of documents which commemorate some of the history of the line. The information is of the highest quality including the letter from the Lady in Waiting to the late Queen Mother, personal correspondence together with publicity documentation, and special front cover editions.

Our sincere thanks to Jimmy Zondach for making this information available to us.

We encourage anyone who has the interests of the Avontuur Line at heart to write in and express their support for the continued survival of this line.

 

 

Sandstone Heritage Trust - Rail News

RN 299 - Steam shed report - by Derrik van Zyl

19th December 2006

 

Sandstone Estates Welcomes Robert Farmer Sandstone Estates would like to welcome Robert Farmer from The Bredgar & Worms Hill Light Railway (www.bwlr.co.uk). Robert has requested some time ago to make a dedicated volunteer trip to The Sandstone Heritage Railway. Therefore he has offered his services for a month on a working holiday basis. Robert has an agricultural engineering background gained from agricultural dealerships in the UK and is a pro-active member of the Bredgar & Worms Hill Light Railway. Robert hails from Tonbridge in the Garden of England Kent. Robert was first packed into a Freightliner Argosy truck and sent on a cross country trip to urgently recover a narrow gauge Garratt coal tender and wagon bogies from Port Shepstone. This provided him with some excellent experience in heavy duty rigging assisted by truck driver Leon Flynn and steam shed fitter Henk De Bruin. Robert also had a chance to experience the closure of a huge steam operation the Banna Express. Robert also spent some time with our master loco builder Lukas Nel in Bloemfontein and seen first hand at the quality standard and speed to which the restoration workshops are operating under. Robert can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and we look forward to a website report from him soon on his experiences of the Sandstone Heritage Railway.  Right: Robert on the NG4's footplate at the Bloemfontein workshops.
BSA Rail Car Gets Eager for "Loco-Motion" The BSA rail car has had a roller coaster year, often accumulating with a huge burst of activity and then stalling with some set-backs. Of course since this is a complete rebuild project there is considerable amount of fabrication, design and issues to overcome. Henry Brown has committed himself to the project and as such has fabricated diesel tank and sorted out some of the drive problems from the main gearbox. While there is a lot of cosmetic body work to complete the mechanical aspects are almost done and the first live rail test should be completed shortly after Xmas.
New Storage Line Development Due to continued acquisition of narrow gauge assets we have realised that the most efficient storage for these is actually on a siding. As such we have outlined the proposed development of a new storage line that will provide up to half a km of storage. This proposed line will start from near the main farm silos infrastructure and loop out of the complex towards the implement sheds. Some of the steam staff are busy getting the components ready for this operation, gathering clips, cleaning bolts, sorting rail and sleepers. This will ensure that when we start we have all the parts in place to finish as quickly as possible. Who knows in the future this innocent storage line may be linked into the main farm line and provide another dimension to the ever-developing railway. We envisage this storage line to start in late January.
Unloading of Wagons From PE Leon Flynn and Arno Serfontein are still busy with the clean-up project. Below Shunting a flatbed into the storage area with the Funkey.
Wagon Woodwork A number of open sided wooden wagons have been taken in for a slight cosmetic upgrade to the woodwork. This includes some sanding down, new varnish and some minor repairs. Its essential that all woodwork is repaired and maintained to a high standard, especially given the tough Free State conditions. Our staff members Petrus and Oupa have tackled this task with great vigor and will have the two units back into service shortly.
Level Signals Three level crossing signal posts have been erected at Sandstone. These signals will complement the realistic aspect of the three main road crossings and junctions near the main farm complex. The signal posts were set with deep concrete foundations and we can thanks Len Huxham for the effort in getting them installed quickly. The signal posts are a real asset to the maturing rail network and asserts our commitment to operate as professionally as possible.

On 19th December 2006 the First Secretary of the South African High Commission in London, Janet Kotze, unveiled Bathala, the 1899 Decauville locomotive owned and restored by the Sandstone Heritage Trust. The locomotive has been placed at the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu on loan in order to assist Beaulieu to highlight the potential for a 2-ft Narrow Gauge Railway on the estate. A large group of journalists and steam railway enthusiasts gathered to listen to Ralph Montagu outline the project. Wilfred Mole from the Sandstone Heritage Trust described Bathala's interesting history and how it had survived the Angolan War to emerge in its current pristine condition. Janet Kotze said that it was a significant milestone for South Africa that a locomotive of French origin which had worked in Angola and had been saved and refurbished in South Africa should now be on display at a prodigious location such as Beaulieu. Bathala will remain with the National Motor Museum until late summer 2007 and then move to the Decauville Museum in Holland.

Bathala in her new home for the moment

Ralph Montagu speaks at the opening - Wilfred Mole looks on

Beaulieu has maintained a unique collection of classic Formula One and other successful race cars covering a number of generations.